Family Names
Some of this blog is for me ... to keep track of my findings ... to share with my family...
But some of it I am hoping will be fragrant flowers attracting other family detectives ... long lost relatives ... family names.
While my intention is to the privacy of the living ... here are the names on my family tree long since passed. My father's paternal side is missing ... but I know who they are ... I just don't think they know who we are ... so until then .. psst, it's a secret.
Of course, if you are one of the Family Detectives ... please leave a comment and lets see if we can't help each other out!
FATHER'S MATERNAL NAMES
MOTHERS PATERNAL NAMES
MOTHERS MATERNAL NAMES
But some of it I am hoping will be fragrant flowers attracting other family detectives ... long lost relatives ... family names.
While my intention is to the privacy of the living ... here are the names on my family tree long since passed. My father's paternal side is missing ... but I know who they are ... I just don't think they know who we are ... so until then .. psst, it's a secret.
Of course, if you are one of the Family Detectives ... please leave a comment and lets see if we can't help each other out!
FATHER'S MATERNAL NAMES
- John Laing
- Herny Laing
- John Lang
- Agnes Lang
- Elizabeth Annan
- John Ross
- Ellen Ross
- Ann Ross
- Adam Weathersone
- Henry Butts
- Elizabeth Butts
- Mary Lee
- Sarah Weatherstone
- Michael Toomey
- Catherine Toomey (Tormey)
- Ann Chance
MOTHERS PATERNAL NAMES
- James Hardy
- Jane Cadman
- Edith Scott
- James Scott
- Robert Scott
- George Scott
- Sarah Scott
- Elizabeth Gibson
- Sarah Hancock
- Susan Butler
- Janet Craigie
- Alexander Craigie
- Alexander Rankine
- Ann Rankine
- Janet Simpson
MOTHERS MATERNAL NAMES
- Sidney Cotter
- Edward Cotter
- Michael Cotter
- James Cotter
- Catherine Coffee
- Mary Kelly
- John Kelly
Hello Deborah. It was great finding your site and pointing me towards the "Case of Mrs Laing"
ReplyDeleteVery interesting stuff.
The history of the Weatherstone family is becoming fairly extensive.
Sarah is my GGG-mother via daughter Elizabeth.
Guess you have some more cousins (third cousins in my case if Sarah is also your GGGmother)
Peter
Hi Peter,
ReplyDeleteAre you from the Laing line or the Thompsons? I've recently connected with someone from the Thompson line.
And yes, Sarah was my GGGmother.
I've had to put everything aside for a little while while I adjust to changes to my work role.
I'm hoping to write something more on Sarah, but it all seems so extensive.
I really am glad to have found some of the Mrs Laing information, as many people had very little info on Sarah, yet she is the most interesting of my GGGparents!
Henry and Sarah are my GGG-parents through Elizabeth Martha.
ReplyDeleteThe fate of Henry Thompson is interesting. He changed his name to Henry Keens and died in Carcoar 1889. Sarah has a family connection to the surname "Keens".
I know quite a bit about the Weatherstone family but was not aware of the "case of Mrs Laing"
I see from your ancestry.com tree that you have already identified a connection with Henry and Mary Keens. But Adam's daughter Mary Ann is living with Adam at the time of the assault by his next door neighbour (around 1841) and she is still in Australia after that. Mary Keens is therefore likely daughter of William and Mary possible brother of Adam. As you may or may not know Mary and Henry Keens were seperately witnesses at Sarah's two weddings.
ReplyDeleteI know when Henry died but not when Mary died. Confusing things is Henry Thompson Keens also being married to a Mary Ann (Field)
Peter, I think your last post has done my head in!! I've often wondered if William Weatherstone was a relative (stumbled across him a few times in my searches). Are you sure the daughter at the time of the attack wasn't Dinah? I know the court records have Mart Ann Hargraves as the daughter??
ReplyDeleteI noticed that Adam Weatherstone's marriage was witnessed by David Gowans, I came across an Weatherstone marrying a Gowan (Braidwood or Goulburn I think???) .. It's something I have to go back and look for after having dismissed it the first time.
Mary Ann Hargraves was indicated as the daughter of Adam and the court case in London occurred in the same month as Mary Ann Weatherstone was marrying Henry Keens. so Mary Keens cannot be Sarah's sister. Dinah married somebody else whose name escapes.
ReplyDeleteThe Weatherstones in Braidwood are likely descendants of John Weatherstone and Catherine Morgan. I wondered if there was a connection but he comes from different parts while Adam was Scottish (see court case)
It gets better - if we can show that William and John who were raising a family in Stepney at the same time (both with Mary Ann daughters) were related to Adam then it may prove another theory of mine. There is an Adam Wadderstone born about 1769 (Bathgate?) to parents John and Elizabeth Binny and there are two other births to the same parents - William Wadderstone and John Wadderstone.
So you see how nice it would be to determine whether Adam,John and William were brothers. There is also a bishop of Bathgate also called Adam Weatherstone who might be a cousin to ours.
This is one reason I posted to your site - because two heads are better than one.
The identity of Mary Ann Keens is still unconfimed - On the one hand only the date of the baptism of Adam's daughter matches the age at which Mary Keens was convicted and this was my first conclusion as the other two possible Mary Ann's do not match on baptism date and conviction age. It seemed nice to have a sister and her husband as witnesses at Sarah's two weddings but then I found the court case
ReplyDeleteSo on the other hand Mary Ann Hargrave claims to be Adam's daughter is living in Stepney at the same time as Mary Weatherstone marries in Australia. I can only surmise that the baptism for non Adam mary Ann occurs a couple years afther the birth.
A quick check indicates that Elizabeth Gowen does appear to be daughter of John Weatherstone and Catherine Morgan.
ReplyDeleteJohn was born 1806 Gloustershire to parents Willian and Mary Clutterbuck but despite this similarity of names to Adam's (suspected) extended family I don't believe there is a connection. It would be nice though. John established a bit of a dynasty. So many tantalizing possibilities.
Peter ... you have such a great knowledge, I'm still trying to get my head around it.
ReplyDeleteI found some of the records you mentioned before when I started to make a document of all the Weatherstone's (and name varients) born between 1700 & 1800. I have to go back to the document as the website (Family Search) underwent maitenance while I was working on the document. Of course, I went there today, and 2 mins into doing a search, it went back to "under maitenance".
I have discovered an Adam Weatherstone christened in Coldingham Berwick 1767 but no parents listed. Three other Weatherstone children were christened in Coldstream, Berwick around the same time, to a father called William:
Mary 1766
Isabel 1769
Robert 1771
Also in Coldingham in 1797 an Adam Weatherstone married Agnes Black....
It would be interesting to find any other Weatherstone families and look at their kids.
I'm wondering if there is a possibility that Sarah Weatherstone had two daughters called Mary? They had John/James and it appears that James went by the name John... also I'm not sure what the connection with their alias as "Williams" .. but it seems to have been used more than once!
Dinah married John Everington
ReplyDeleteDo you know why Henry Thompson changed his name to Keens? It seems odd that Sarah names a child Henry and then marries one, then there is a connection to a Henry Keens .. and then her child changes his name to that. It's mind boggling, and i'm just not getting it yet. I need a timeline *LOL*
I had assumed that Henry Thompson was adopted by the Keens when Sarah became a widow.
ReplyDeleteHenry Keens (Senior) died 1874 Carcoar - age 64.
Kenny (sic) Keens (Junior) m Mary Field 1864 Carcoar
Henry Keens (Junior) - died 1889 Carcoar - paremts William/Sarah. I have the certificate and the lineage has been verified. In some genealogies I have since come across he is actually called Henry Keens Thomspon - so there is a possibilty (unlikely) that he had that name from birth. That he lived near the original Keens in Carcoar means a likely association. Alas I cannot trace Mary Keens senior but this marriage looks intersting - Mary Ann Keens m Amos Field 1865 Carcoar. Is this the first generation in-laws getting married or the second generation.
There is also a record in NSW Records for a Henry Thompson at orphan school age 9 26/3/1850 (1 year out) mentioned in another genealogy. I hope I'm not mind-boggling you too much.
I don't think its likely that two of Adam's daughters are called Mary Ann.
BTW, Adam Wadderstone was baptized 1871. Bathgate is close to Edinburgh in which census records indicate Adam Weatherstone's birthplace. The other Wadderstones were born in other parishes adjacent to Edinburgh. Surnames were malliable back then and it would have had Scottish pronunciation and not necessarilly recorded correctly. There was also an Adam Wadderstone who was minister of Bathgate from 1758 died 1780 (I previously said Weatherstone and Bishop of Bathgate) mentioned in historical records.
I think I'm starting to understand... I think though I need to start writing dates on sticky notes and putting them on my walls!!!
ReplyDeleteThis is what I've understood: Henry Thompson was adopted as a baby and raised by the Keens ... Mary Keens (nee Weatherstone) was probably a cousin of Sarah's.
.... I do remember coming across a family of Weatherstones who were about the same age as OUR Weatherstones but christened in another church and a few years different. They had the same names but I couldn't work out why they'd have been christened twice. It makes sense that it's another family.
It is interesting that Dinah's children were Adam, William, John and Thomas
Peter, are you in Australia??? If so, are you in Sydney per chance?
Oh and I have previously read about Adam Weatherstone "MINISTERS OP THE CHURCH AT GREAT BAVINGTON.
ReplyDeleteAdam Weatherstone, who was called from Falston, said to have been minister from 1751
to 1757."
I did read about Rev Adam Wadderstone .. seems he was a bit of a character ... had a good sense of humour and an interest in curling!!
Another thing that springs to mind (before I forget) ... I noticed that Adam Weatherstone signed his own marriage entry .. so I always assumed he'd know how to spell his surname (but it is possible someone told him HOW to spell it.. but still interesting to see him signing his signature when so many others are just crosses.)
Just a thought .. John Williams alias Weatherstone, who was transported for burglary. Caro, on her blog has claimed him as John Weatherstone, son of Adam. Agree/Disagree?? I had a thought that maybe the "Williams" means he's identifying himself with his father William instead???
ReplyDeleteThoughts?
Whoops - wrong date - Adam Wadderstone chr 1771 not 1871.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately there appears to be a lot of candidates for Adam's birthplaces - most of the ones in IGI centered aroun Berwick - no criteria for making a choice.
Good point - about Adam being able to write his surname.
Maybe he learnt late in life.
I had assumed that all the convicted Weatherstones except Mary Ann were Adam's. Did he have any children named Adam? (as Samuel and Sarah had) I haven't tracked his fate. I'll have to give the alias Williams a thought.
I live in Canberra and come from Goulburn. Sarah is special to me because she is a matrilineal ancestor.
Trove has an article about one of Henry Keens Thompson's daughters - Sarah Jane Keens
ReplyDeleteInterestinly, in Australia, there are a lot of William Weatherstones (John & Catherine, William & Jane, John & Lucy, Richard & Jane and Adam & Mary)
ReplyDeleteOnly Samuel has named a child Adam though Sarah's first son is John (oh my head hurts again!)
This is a blog post written about John Weatherstone husband of Catherine Morgan http://branchesleavespollen.blogspot.com.au/2012/02/belated-australia-day-post-john.html
There is another Weatherstone that I am curious if you know about ... James Weatherstone transported to Tasmania on the Red Rover, Oct 1830
I asked where you lived as there are a few other Sarah Weatherstone desendants who have been tracking her history and 2 of them have asked to meet up with me. One, is from the central coast and thought she'd catch up when she's in Sydney. ......... I grew up in Murrumburrah ... where John Lang and his family moved to after living in Braidwood (interestingly we've been told he was sent with a bullock driver when he was 12 .. I now wonder if it was a Weatherstone!)
I've read that blog. Unfortunately unlikely to be other than a distant relationship with the Gloustershire Weatherstones.
ReplyDeleteIf only we could get some Y-chromosome matching going on.
I have another interest in your John Ross/Ann Ross ancestors.
Have you tracked his origin? The reason being I have a Peter Ross ex Rossshire who also lived in Braidwood at the same time as John where my gteat grandmother Mary Roberts (nee Ross) was born.
It's unlikely because the surname was ubiquitous in Rossshire but it means all descendants are double cousins.
My niece is in Sydney; she is the one who first started doing the family history; I'm sure she would like to meet new relatives.
ReplyDeleteI'll ask her.
I think its better to exchange contact details through ancestry.com peer to peer email. I don't like putting email addresses out on public web sites.
Oooh I wouldn't share emails on public forums either :) ... I just got a package from my coastal cousin (well cousin a few times removed!) ... it's mostly about Henry Laing and his trail but there's something about Sarah in the bundle as well. I'm not sure it's anything new, she gave me all my starts with the family research and I've managed to take her knowledge and keep going. I think I'd still be a way back without the documents she gave my father years ago.
ReplyDeleteHow much do you know about the Laings?
Someone called Ross was researching his family tree and contacted my father. I think he did a fair bit of research and maybe even a booklet. I shall have to find out.
John Ross is on my "next to check" list. The same cousin who sent me the documents has done a fair bit of research about the Ross/Laing connection. John Ross Snr was a convict who came out on the Countess of Harcourt. I'm not sure of the crime details yet, but seems he was from Wigton, Cumberland (Certificate of Freedom) and that he was convicted with is brother Joseph Ross. He married Ellen Ross, who I am sure was a cousin ... but my train of thought stopped there for a while and I ended up back on the Laing hunt.
1)Don't know anything more about the Laings apart from what's on your site. Any information youu are willing to share would be nice. Following your relevation about the "cae of Mrs Laing" I have collected (and corrected) much of this articles in Trove about Sarah and the other protagonists Captain Moore, MacPherson
ReplyDelete2)Looks as if there is no connection with my Peter Forbes Ross - he was a free settler from Fearn, Roosshire - parents John Ross and Katharine Forbes
3)It may be of interest to know that on revisiting the subject I am now thinking that Mary Keens did indeed marry Henry Keens' father-in-law Amos Field in 1879 (a recent widower) and she died in Molong 1887 age 62. Molong,Orange and Carcoar are near each other, but no parents indicated in the BDM index
Mary Keens: My arithmetic is out by 10 years. Next!
ReplyDeletePeter,
ReplyDeleteI have a question ... I felt like I had so much with Sarah being connected to Adam Weatherstone .. but do you think that maybe her father was John Weatherstone, brother of Adam... also living in Harris Court?
I cant see that. Only one Sarah baptized in Stepney - in 1821 to Adam/Elizabeth. b.c. also shows the birthdate also being 1821.
ReplyDeleteOne child called Adam. I think the John on the d.c is just a mistake. Informants were not especially accurate back then
The two firstborn possibly named after Henry's parents John & Elizabeth. Can't remember where Adam fit in the bith order.
Do you have new information (about John living in Harris couurt being a brother) Up till now that was just a theory. I believe he John is the father of Mary Keens as Mary Ann ex William/Mary married somebody else (Davoren?) and stayed in Britain. Mary Keens court case mentions luring the victim back to Harris Court.
That would support her identity.
No .. just wondering if I've been "barking up the wrong tree".
ReplyDeleteAdam Weatherstone, from his court case, lives in Harris Court ... and Mary Keens lured her victim to her father's place in Harris Court.
I was just looking at the "refusal" records for 1840 when Mary & Henry Keens married .. I clicked the next page for a look/see and discovered a Mary Williams and a Thomas Kearns .. all these names making me crazy! Haa
From memoty: There was actually several Keens convicted in the same jurisdiction in the same time period.
ReplyDeleteSome sort of civil disobedience issue. Henry Keens though was transported for more mundane reasons. If you are interested in a possible connection to "John Williams". Mary Keens had a tattoo that started with JW. One of the brothers (Samuel?) had one starting with JW. Sarah had one starting with JN. A W could be mistaken for a N. Has anybod pondered the meaning of these tattoos?
Funny you should mention that. I've been exploring the tattoos and their meanings myself. I read somewhere that a small number of female convicts had blue dots on their hands ..... 2 of these were our Weatherstones, as well as John Williams:
ReplyDeleteMary:
Anchor JWWET on upper left arm, 5 dots, scar and blue illegible mark on upper right arm, blue ring forefinger of left hand.
Sarah:
MNMN on upper right arm, JNM on upper left arm, two blue dots on back of right hand and 5 on back of left.
John Williams
Brig incomplete on breast, woman upper, mermaid B W J L heart pierced with 2 darts, M W inside lower right arm, J W M K on upper, anchor, crucifix lower inside lower left arm, four blue dots.
I've read a few places that the dots might signify a gaol cell, and the person inside it:
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/marked-skin-of-marked-men-tells-of-convict-past-20120122-1qc6i.html
Thanks - more things to ponder.
DeleteThis - I believe - is the civil disturbance I mentioned:
http://www3.hants.gov.uk/tasker-collection/taskers/taskers-riot.htm
Henry Keens was acquitted (on this ocassion) at a special commission in 1830-1831, Richard Keens and John Keens- death sentence - probably transported.
A better link to the Swing Riots:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.swingriotsriotersblacksheepsearch.com/index.php?p=1_23_Hampshire
I noted Wm Hargrave and Mary Ann Hargrave (born c1816) at nearby Bethnal Green in 1841 census. On ancestry.com somebudy suggests this is Hargrove - no doubt because there was a marriage of William Hargrove and another Mary - but I'm not convinced.
ReplyDeleteLooks more like an "a" and not an "o".
So could this be Adam's daughter?
I ordered some certictates to confirm a theory about Mary Ann Keens:
ReplyDelete22/12/1879 Carcoar Mary Ann Keens (her mark) married widower Amos Field - witnesses Henry Thompson - Mary Jane Thompson (her mark)
21/7/1887 Molong Mary Ann Field age 62 died suddenly because of fatty degeneration of the heart; born London father __ Weatherstone watchman. married age 53 Carcoar. informant Amos Field husband.
Ooh .. that's interesting Peter :) ... I shall digest it a bit more in a few days time. Have visitors at the moment and no time for visiting with the ancestors!!!
ReplyDeleteSo this Henry Thompson was Sarah's son? Guess she is the one that adopted him then?
ReplyDeleteI found something to say that Mary Jane Thompson (marriage witness) was Amos Field's daughter... SO is this right?
ReplyDeleteSarah Weatherstone adopts son Henry Thompson to sister Mary Keens.
Henry Thompson marries Mary Jane Fields.
Mary Keens marries Amos Fields.
(Talk about keeping it in the family!!!)
Yes. Mary Keens (Weatherstone) marries the father in law of Henry Thompson. I'm not sure when he changed his name or whether he was adopted. All I know is that he lived with the Keens, he was informant at the elder Henry Keens death and at the second wedding of Mary Keens so he had a close relationship with them.
ReplyDeleteIt should be noted that the occupation of Mary's father is given at watchman which is evidence in favour of Adam being her father but this information may come from Henry Thompson and he may be mixing it up with Sarah.
Mary could not read-write unlike Sarah.
Do we know whether Samuel could read-write?
If we find a pattern here it might shed some light on Mary's true parentage.
After all this time I am not certain.
And it is really difficult keeping track of all these Henry/Mary's in Carcoar.
Still got one to explain - Mary Ann Keens married Edward Ogle
As far as I can see the elder Henry and Mary Keens had no issue.
All in the family indeed:
ReplyDeleteMary J Thompson m 1894 Carcoar David Ogle
David Ogle d 1933 Carcoar Edward/Jane
Mary Ann Ogle d 1944 Orange Henry/Mary Jane
Mary A Keens m 1890 Carcoar Edward Ogle
Mary J Ogle d 1911 Carcoar Amos/Anna
In other words Mary Jane the widow of Henry Thompson Keens married the father in law of her daughter Mary Ann.
.
David was also the one who accidentally shot and killed another daughter - Sarah Jane Keens.
Some observations I've recently made
ReplyDelete1) Adam signed his name Adam Watterston at his marriage lending some support to my Wadderstone theory. (Thanks for pointing out that he was literate)
2) Mary Ann Everingham married Joseph Hargrave in 1839 and as you are aware her brother John Everingham eventually marries Diana Weatherstone and is living with the Weatherstones in 1841. Therefore she could be the Mary Hargrave who testified in 1840 if she too was living with her brother. But it does not explain why she identifies as Adam's daughter and that she was competent to testify. In the 1841 census she is a patient at Northumberland House - a mental asylum.
I think rather that there might be interlocking marriages and Mary Ann Weatherstone (Adam) may have married a brother of Joseph.
Could be William if the couple living at Bethnal Green is related.
3) Mary Ann Weatherstone (Adam) was born in Nov 1814 and all the documents for Mary Keens indicates a birth date of 1816 or later.
4) William Weatherstone appears to be a generation apart from Adam so he is not likely a brother. Mary Keens more likely a child of John/Elizabeth
I'll get back to this soon.
ReplyDeleteThis is "one of those times" at work where I'm working late EVERY night and by the time I get home I just wind down and go to bed. Holidays coming soon!!
I only just noticed - Sarah was gaoled 4 timss, 1863, 1864, 1874, Nov 1874.
ReplyDeleteHave you found the cases? I think I have the details somewhere .. When I first started I didn't have my paperwork organised very well. I keep opening word documents and rediscovering new things!!
ReplyDeleteNope. All that's online is the Gaol Entrance and Description records.(three visits in 1864 - one in 1874) Looks like a visit to the NLA might be required
ReplyDeleteFound this blog so interesting. Diana Weatherstone (who married John Everingham and was sister of Samuel and Sarah) was my great great grandmother.
ReplyDeleteJames Hardy and Jane Cadman appear in my BYE family tree
ReplyDeleteHi I saw you list the name James Hardy and Jane Cadman. I'm trying to help someone find her ancestors and these are their name. They resided in Westbury, Australia, but came from either England or Ireland. James died 1881. Would love to see if there is a connection and you can email me at janicefriel@aol.com
ReplyDeleteHi Janice, yes my James & Jane were from Westbury Tasmania. He was an Irish Soldier who came here on a settlement scheme. He was given land with a well and a pear tree as a retirement deal. I haven't confirmed it yet, but I think perhaps he had to come out with a convict ship as part of the deal. There's another James Hardy who came out the same time and it always gets confusing when looking him up. I am at the tail end of the year at work and it's very busy so I can look up some in January. Feel free to comment again if I have got side tracked along the way.
ReplyDeleteJanice, check out this if you haven't already seen it ... http://portal.archives.tas.gov.au/menu.aspx?detail=1&type=P&id=168308
ReplyDeletefolks I'm a descendant of Samuel Weatherstone and Letitia Dougherty. I've just had DNA testing done ... showing suggested potential matches to other descendants of Samuel and also to descendants of Sarah - tending to suggest that they were related
ReplyDeleteKerrie's DNA matches are very, very interesting suggesting that Adam had two brothers: one called John - the ancestor of the Parkesbourne Weatherstones; the other unknown (could he be William?)
ReplyDelete